Curse

Jetdoc · Oct 12, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

And as you can see it gets very messy trying to put out collectors/greens with every possible combination out there. Wouldnt a simple inscription/improved salvaging system be far better?

They've done it for weapons, so I don't see much of a stretch for shields as well.

Granted, they won't be able to do every combination of the dual-modifiers, but we don't even know if that will be available in the Nightfall inscription system either.

In other words, you may not have "two" inscriptions you can salvage for dual modded shields/caster items. You may only be able to take the "combo" off one item and put it on another.

For example, you may have a +45 HP while enchanted, -2 damage in a stance shield. We have no idea whether, under the inscription system, you'd be able to replace JUST the -2 damage in a stance modifier with a -2 damage while enchanted modifier.

You may only be able to remove the combination inscription.

Being able to remove only one inscription also causes some logistical problems, as there are many combinations not currently available in the game such as dual HP modifiers (but dual damage reduction modifiers are allowed).

sixdartbart · Oct 12, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Your attempt at logic fails simply because people can take multiple weapons with them and switch weapons. Now we may have the chance to switch mods rather than weapons.

Congrats you understood the point even if you don't realize it

You are trying to add into the discussion about why or why not to have inscriptions something that is already possible....

Current system = prepare yourself before entering - hit hot-key to switch weapon sets for a new set of beasties

Your proposal = hang on guys lets re mod all of our weapons before we go any farther - oh crap it's more of the other guys lets stop and re mod everything again - here comes more of those again lets stop so I can change my mods again.

Not to mention how screwed this would be in PvP....

Mordakai · Oct 12, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

I'm exactly with you there...I have a number of weapons with skins I love that I can't wait to update. Perfect Hand Axe/Stone Summit Warlord Shield collection - here I come!

But then again, that's really selfish on my part...it's instant gratification. After I upgrade them, I really don't have much more use of pursuing other items, as I would have obtained my "perfect" item.

That eliminates a goal in the game for me...as it would for many, many others. That's why I think this change is bad for the game, IMO.

Your a smart guy, I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding other goals.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Oct 12, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

I think people dont realize that having more variety and options and flexibility is what prolongs the longevity and replayability of a game. NOT the chasing the carrot on a stick gimmick. Some people arent fooled by that artificial trick of prolonging the game. Shame that a few people here dont realize that.

Jetdoc · Oct 12, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Instant gratification? All that planning, that hoarding of weapons to scavange from to get just what you want... the salvaging, discarding worthless mods, keeping perfect... salvaging leftovers for materials... hardly instant. Plus you need to find your skin of choice in the first place.

It makes me wonder... if all you have left in the game is getting that 'perfect' item... why do you still play? I may want perfect items for my characters and heroes all around, but that's not the be-all and end-all of the game. There's still the game to play, the titles to get, the missions to achieve masters in...

If you lose interest in the game because you finally get your perfect weapon, you need to rethink what you do in the evening.

1. You don't need to hoard weapons. You simply need to buy, from another player, that skin you want...which likely will be pretty cheap. Then go buy the inscription you want (either from another player or a merchant if they institute it). BAM - you have your perfect weapon.

In other words - ask yourself - how many people that have fellblades right now actually went out and farmed until they got the one they wanted? 99.9% of the people that have them bought them from other players.

2. I didn't say that this was my only goal, but it IS a goal. People that don't have any reason for playing the game OTHER than hoarding items definitely need to reconsider their game choice.

However, removing this goal only limits the playability of the game. It's like saying that you play primarily PvE, so it's okay if they remove Heroes Ascent, the PvP arenas and Alliance Battles. YOU may not play them often, but removing the option of playing those, as a goal in the game, generally hurts the game.

Remember - the true value of Guild Wars is the diversity in how it can be played. Removing ways in can be played takes away some of the base appeal, to old farts like myself and to new players, alike.

Mordakai · Oct 12, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

Congrats you understood the point even if you don't realize it

You are trying to add into the discussion about why or why not to have inscriptions something that is already possible....

Current system = prepare yourself before entering - hit hot-key to switch weapon sets for a new set of beasties

Your proposal = hang on guys lets re mod all of our weapons before we go any farther - oh crap it's more of the other guys lets stop and re mod everything again - here comes more of those again lets stop so I can change my mods again.

Not to mention how screwed this would be in PvP....

Meh, I'm not sure most people would even take advantage of this. I've never been in a group where people said, "wait, let's switch Armor for the next group."

In fact, with four weapon slots available, you could already have every weapon pre-modded for optimum efficiency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

I think people dont realize that having more variety and options and flexibility is what prolongs the longevity and replayability of a game. NOT the chasing the carrot on a stick gimmick. Some people arent fooled by that artificial trick of prolonging the game. Shame that a few people here dont realize that.

Great point.

MSecorsky · Oct 12, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

Congrats you understood the point even if you don't realize it

You are trying to add into the discussion about why or why not to have inscriptions something that is already possible....

Current system = prepare yourself before entering - hit hot-key to switch weapon sets for a new set of beasties

Your proposal = hang on guys lets re mod all of our weapons before we go any farther - oh crap it's more of the other guys lets stop and re mod everything again - here comes more of those again lets stop so I can change my mods again.

Not to mention how screwed this would be in PvP....

Who knows... maybe this will make it easier for everyone to have those three or four weapons modded just so, and maybe there will be those that find it easier to take one or two weapons and a few spare mods for special circumstances. As pointed out, the added flexibility is what will make it great.

As for PvP, if you want to stop and change mods while getting wailed on, be my guest.

sixdartbart · Oct 12, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

It makes me wonder... if all you have left in the game is getting that 'perfect' item... why do you still play? I may want perfect items for my characters and heroes all around, but that's not the be-all and end-all of the game. There's still the game to play, the titles to get, the missions to achieve masters in...

If you lose interest in the game because you finally get your perfect weapon, you need to rethink what you do in the evening.

Why not take a look at what he actually wrote rather than changing it to fit in with the argument you want to make?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

That eliminates a goal in the game for me...as it would for many, many others. That's why I think this change is bad for the game, IMO.

Please tell me where he said that was all he had left to do in the game
Looks pretty clear to me that he said it was "a goal" that would be taken away as several others have in this thread but far too many people arguing for this change overlook that to make it easier to exaggerate their points.

Aera Lure · Oct 12, 2006, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Bottom line: more is better.

To me, the inscriptions concept is a real shame if implemented as I imagine. In the PvE game, the market is a large part of the play. Sure, it shouldnt be all there is to do, but greens and the scope of crafted and collected weapon options in Factions made it such that frankly any PvE player can find what they need to be successful, while leaving room for some hard to come by things that are fun to seek if that's an additional goal for you. There's little point in removing the high end market from Nightfall. All it does is remove one more possibility of things to do in the end game.

MSecorsky · Oct 12, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

1. You don't need to hoard weapons. You simply need to buy, from another player, that skin you want...which likely will be pretty cheap. Then go buy the inscription you want (either from another player or a merchant if they institute it). BAM - you have your perfect weapon.

In other words - ask yourself - how many people that have fellblades right now actually went out and farmed until they got the one they wanted? 99.9% of the people that have them bought them from other players.

2. I didn't say that this was my only goal, but it IS a goal. People that don't have any reason for playing the game OTHER than hoarding items definitely need to reconsider their game choice.

However, removing this goal only limits the playability of the game. It's like saying that you play primarily PvE, so it's okay if they remove Heroes Ascent, the PvP arenas and Alliance Battles. YOU may not play them often, but removing the option of playing those, as a goal in the game, generally hurts the game.

Remember - the true value of Guild Wars is the diversity in how it can be played. Removing ways in can be played takes away some of the base appeal, to old farts like myself and to new players, alike.

Not everyone buys from other players. I don't, for one. If I can't find it, I'll wait until I do. So for many, the 'go buy it' argument fails. Besides, why should that aspect of the game be denied to me... the hoarding of certain found mods and inscriptions with the dreams of constructing the ideal weapon myself rather than buy it from someone that had the fun? Why prevent that level of diversity?

As for finding that perfect weapon, that doesn't go away. You will have the additional option, if you choose to use it, to jig-saw together your perfect weapon. But you don't have to use that option if you don't want to. You would lose nothing in that respect.

sumrtym · Oct 12, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

HEY WINKGOOD:

Point me to more than one available for sale 20/20 cast recharge req 9 or lower Zodiac wand for blood, death, and curses, and the same on Zodiac staffs. If you can't, then stop re-itereating the same argument that you can get any skin and combo you want in this game if you "just work for it".

And don't even try telling me "just use a collector" item when your entire argument is based upon wanting to farm for skins as the only thing to do. Just like you, I want the skins and stats I want. Theoretically, the above should be attainable. Realistically, they are not (unless you can put your money where your mouth is and show me availability of those items). Until then, I'd say the inscriptions serve their purpose of allowing people to get the skin and stat they want, without your "proposed" limitations you think people ought to suffer.

BTW, I leave this as an open invitation to ANY anti-inscriptionist. Either prove these items are available, or just shut-up about their being the needed availability in the game. If myself, and all of you in all your infinite hours of farming, can't produce these above items, then your arguments clearly are flawed. The present system is frustrating, unfriendly, annoying, and limits players too much from their enjoyment of the game. I can craft / buy whatever armor I want in this game to look how I want, but the same is not true in weapons. It's an inherently flawed system, and should be corrected. Under an inscription system, nothing is "handed to me". I still have to get the mods and a low req skin of the one I want (ie work for it). The difference is now that goal is infinitely more obtainable than before, and realistic. You want to keep your unrealistic goal? Then don't use inscriptions. Operate as you always have. This does not curtail your enjoyment one iota, unless you get a thrill out of limiting others in the game (which obviously IS the case given your "customize all inscribed items" opinion).

I await your presentation of the above 6 items since they're "obtainable" under the present system.

MSecorsky · Oct 12, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

Why not take a look at what he actually wrote rather than changing it to fit in with the argument you want to make?
Please tell me where he said that was all he had left to do in the game
Looks pretty clear to me that he said it was "a goal" that would be taken away as several others have in this thread but far too many people arguing for this change overlook that to make it easier to exaggerate their points.

Speaking of missed points...

The goal of finding that perfect weapon goes nowhere. This would simply add another means of doing so, which is purely optional.

Mordakai · Oct 12, 2006, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Bottom line: more is better.

To me, the inscriptions concept is a real shame if implemented as I imagine. In the PvE game, the market is a large part of the play. Sure, it shouldnt be all there is to do, but greens and the scope of crafted and collected weapon options in Factions made it such that frankly any PvE player can find what they need to be successful, while leaving room for some hard to come by things that are fun to seek if that's an additional goal for you. There's little point in removing the high end market from Nightfall. All it does is remove one more possibility of things to do in the end game.

I respectfully disagree. There still will be "high-end" items. Some items will fall in price, others will rise.

And remember, Inscriptions are not removing anything from the game. It's adding a new element.

As you say, "More is better."

sixdartbart · Oct 12, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumrtym

I'd say the inscriptions serve their purpose of allowing people to get the skin and stat they want, without your "proposed" limitations you think people ought to suffer.

Dude I didn't know you were suffering from not having zodiac skin weapons

You have completely turned me around on this whole idea sorry bro you should have told us about your suffering earlier and we would have all stopped being against this days ago.

sumrtym · Oct 12, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

Dude I didn't know you were suffering from not having zodiac skin weapons

You have completely turned me around on this whole idea sorry bro you should have told us about your suffering earlier and we would have all stopped being against this days ago.

Wow, and you so almost had me convinced with how everyone will suffer if things are actually realistically obtainable with inscriptions. You shoulda stressed more how you want to protect your "wealth" so I woulda seen the light earlier.

Does this mean you can't produce those 6 items? Surely not.....

Akhilleus · Oct 12, 2006, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Party approaches a mob of 'x' and realizes that they're sensitive to cold damage. Party pauses to put cold damage mods on their weapons before attacking.

guess what, you can already do this!
i'd support 100% chance to salvage in a HEARTBEAT (and for the matter collectors/crafters with every possible modification in each major city), because thats practical but having the damage mod you want on the skin you want (when you can get it through other means) is NOT practicality, its vanity.

the pro-inscriptionists are calling us selfish, but i guarantee you if you scroll through these 60+ pages of thread, you'd find for every anti-inscriptionist promoting the status quo, are 10 pro-inscriptionists saying "finally ill be able to get my favorite skin with the damage mod i want!" even if EVERY anti-inscriptionist is in it only for themsleves, you guys still outnumber us in selfishness. so, which side is really the more selfish one here?
but as has been stated, legitimate wealthy players will be wealthy, inscriptions or not, i guarantee you we'd still thrive in an even deplorable economy (heck, the economy is infintly more instable than it was last year, and ive made absurd profits trading BECAUSE of the instability and unreliability of item value...theres more room for profit if theres no "standard" price), the fact of the matter is that there are some people who see the possible dangers to the guildwars economy. and if we traders are so devoid of skill in economical predictions, we wouldnt be wealthy to begin with.

sumrtym · Oct 12, 2006, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

the pro-inscriptionists are calling us selfish, but i guarantee you if you scroll through these 60+ pages of thread, you'd find for every anti-inscriptionist promoting the status quo, are 10 pro-inscriptionists saying "finally ill be able to get my favorite skin with the damage mod i want!" even if EVERY anti-inscriptionist is in it only for themsleves, you guys still outnumber us in selfishness. so, which side is really the more selfish one here?

Clearly, you guys. Pro-inscritptions takes nothing away from you, and allows ANYONE (not just me, or that guy, or "I", etc.) to realistically work to obtaining the skin and stats they want.

I'd say it's pretty obvious who the selfish group is no matter how you want to color it. And I'm glad you acknowledge the fact the change is favored by at least 10 to 1.

Franco · Oct 12, 2006, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Mordakai can I ask you a question? Since the start of this thread you have clearly shown a negative feeling about geting 15k armor or expensive weapons because people have to grind for it and It's not a pleasent experience of the game, but dont you think thats a bit selfish? I mean, What business is it of yours if someone farms trolls for 10 hours to get 15k armor? Its their time, its their game, its their way of having fun, Mind your own business.

Oh and Manitoba GREAT POST, glad to see someone else that can see the real truth here.

MSecorsky · Oct 12, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

the pro-inscriptionists are calling us selfish, but i guarantee you if you scroll through these 60+ pages of thread, you'd find for every anti-inscriptionist promoting the status quo, are 10 pro-inscriptionists saying "finally ill be able to get my favorite skin with the damage mod i want!" even if EVERY anti-inscriptionist is in it only for themsleves, you guys still outnumber us in selfishness. so, which side is really the more selfish one here?

Simple... the rich ones that wish to deny availability of ideal weapons for everyone except at their price.

What could possibly be so bad about letting me piece together a max 15>50 fellblade with the mods I want and not have to spend a lot to do so? What could possibly be so bad in me taking a 15>50 inscription of this sword, the hilt of that one, etc. and making me something I'll enjoy even more? Because I didn't pay you to do so?

Methinks Akhilleus doth protest too much.

Akhilleus · Oct 12, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

And as you can see it gets very messy trying to put out collectors/greens with every possible combination out there. Wouldnt a simple inscription/improved salvaging system be far better?

Imagine trying to put out a shield collector for every possible combination. Yikes.

i somehow think the thousands of lines of code, and the hours of beta-testing inscriptions (along with the chance of MASSIVLY screwing everything up), somehow amount to more time than it would take to input another collector.
the mods already exist in the game, and they know they work, its just a matter of adding new combinations to different collectors.